Tribe.net. Local Connections Kobalt http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#5493a957-deb2-4539-931c-79ae318d02f3 2008-11-19T02:44:59Z 2008-11-19T02:44:59Z

Sorry to be an ass, but I didn't bother reading any of those long posts... I just really don't care if someone votes. If it makes you feel empowered or good in any way; do it. If not: don't, and don't feel guilty about it.

Kobalt 2008-11-19T02:44:59Z Djinn http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#5e61b22f-4100-4692-aeea-e7fbf4469a5b 2008-10-01T23:34:35Z 2008-10-01T23:34:24Z

Did you delete the old thread then repost the original post?

Djinn 2008-10-01T23:34:24Z Tedster http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#ca0ae6df-a1e4-4889-8051-c5a255ab8c4b 2008-09-27T05:16:36Z 2008-09-27T05:16:36Z

The only reason why Obama can say that he didn't support the intervention of Iraq. and nobody can say he voted for the Patriot Act is because he wasn't in congress. I think many people will be up to a rude suprise, while the rest of us can only say "told you so." Even then, they won't listen.

Tedster 2008-09-27T05:16:36Z Max http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#2a6a936c-78ba-48d1-8945-0dc0853482bd 2008-09-26T15:48:40Z 2008-09-26T15:48:40Z

I was unaware Obama supports the patriot act. I find this more then a little irking but not shocking. The orgy of Obama ass kissing going on lately has been sickening. It sad that things have gotten to the point that all you need to do is say the word "change" and your a "rock star", no one asks "change what?".

Max 2008-09-26T15:48:40Z Djinn http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#f9366e32-f020-473b-a6d4-85556446686f 2008-09-20T00:26:30Z 2008-09-20T00:26:30Z

Actually, unless you are rich, Obama will cut your taxes more than McCain, or at least claims he will. If you are a CEO you will probably get taxed more by Obama. Obama still subscribes to an interventionist foreign policy, and will continue US imperialism....but he will do it will more focus on diplomacy and economic extortion while McCain will be just a little more gung ho with the violence. They are both likely to back Israel on any attack on Iran. The new cold war with Russia is a little worrying though, and I dont much care for McCain and Palins attitude on the subject. Since war is the biggest chunk of our budget, I think McCain will end up spending more money than Obama, even despite Obamas health care plan. Both options suck. In my opinion, Palin is the most scary however. She fired a librarian for saying she refused to ban books, attributes her success in politics to the prayers of a witch hunter, fired people from public jobs just because they didnt back her as a candidate (Librarians and cops), and has a long history of abuse of power. If that is a sign of what she will be like as president if McCain kicks the bucket, Im considering leaving the country before it happens. She is a fucking idiot with no clue on foreign policy, and would likely engage in domestic spying and further erosion of civil rights. Obama is also a supporter of the patriot act however. No great options, just bad and worse.

Djinn 2008-09-20T00:26:30Z David M. http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#2aa37762-7081-43cc-97dd-d03f42e37b7f 2008-09-19T16:16:59Z 2008-09-19T16:15:57Z

You are entitled to your opinion, but I could not disagree more. Obama has semi-slick rhetoric, but has not even mildly convinced me that he stands for any meaningful change. Grabbing Biden as a side-kick does nothing to help matters (as Biden is an obvious part of the problem). I might also add that I find your concept of capitalism is somewhat skewed. Taxes is not, in fact, a product of capitalism. It is a product of greedy statesmen who have the power of force with the stroke of a pen. We can certainly discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of capitalism, but be sure to carve neatly between what capitalism looks like due to government involvement and what capitalism looks like in a much more free market. Be that as it may, I'd have to disagree with ignoring 3rd parties. Voting is not a horse race. You don't get extra points for picking the winner. Voting is about (or supposed to be about) supporting the individual(s) who best represent your political views, regardless of other factors. If you vote your heart, your mind, your conscience, it is NEVER a wasted vote. Conversely, when you vote for the lesser of 2 evils, if your guy wins you still get evil. Your choice with the members of the duopoly seem to be: Vote Obama and you get higher taxes & spending, a quickly stalled economy, and higher national debt; or vote McCain and get lower taxes & higher spending, a not-as-quickly stalled economy, and an even larger national debt. In sum - they are both a complete disaster.

David M. 2008-09-19T16:15:57Z Djinn http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#30f37e3b-14b8-45e4-9d9a-71cdd943c1d8 2008-09-19T04:53:26Z 2008-09-19T04:53:26Z

I strongly dislike both parties and the system at large, but the McCain/Palin ticket is even more worrying to me. If you feel that one candidate is less horrible than the other, perhaps you should vote for that ticket. I am not convinced that the act of not voting makes much of a political statement. It too easily gets dismissed as apathy rather than disillusionment. Now if we could vote for 'None of the above', that might make more of a statement. If you live in a swing state, perhaps its better to vote for the lesser evil. If you live in a solid state, red or blue, perhaps a protest vote for a third party is no less of a waste than not voting at all since you wont change the outcome anyway. Getting a third party on the map could really help, and to do that they need at least 5% in the previous election. Elections are almost solely determined by swing states....McCain wont win California and Obama wont win Texas. If you live in states like these you might as well not vote, but it might be even better just to vote third party in hopes of gaining that 5%. Then again, maybe things will just have to fall apart before they get better. I hope not, but I am not going to assume that we will pull together and change course voluntarily so long as the same corporate figures control our government.

Djinn 2008-09-19T04:53:26Z $item.owner.firstName http://anarchism.tribe.net/thread/ba163f35-f8d1-4925-8383-02a9cb89e9be#b9c4735c-0672-4cf9-8fc8-363de983c00e 2008-09-17T05:38:44Z 2008-09-17T05:38:44Z

I've always been very extreme in my stance toward voting, and as a result have never voted once in my life. I still sincerely believe that voting only allows a certain amount of change, yet never addresses that which really needs changing most: the horribly fraudulent distribution of land, resources and wealth of our planet. Inheritances of property and wealth have enabled this problem to grow to extreme proportions, resulting in the world we see today. The concept of "ownership", whether it be of wealth, land or resources, is at the core of Capitalism, which is at the core of Taxation, which is at the core of Government. Therefore, imho, we cannot bring forth drastic fundamental change in land-, wealth-, and resource distribution through elections. Now, as an immigrant, having lived in the US since 2007, I've been thinking and debating a lot because of all this 'hype' around the elections. Also, I've educated myself on some political issues, with documentaries like "Jesus Camp" and the "Israeli Lobby" really shocking me to the core... Eventually, I reached the conclusion that the best thing to do for any "anarchist, rebel, punk, hippy, progressive, or liberal, or whatever", is to vote for the Obama - Biden ticket. Why? Simply because of the realization that no matter what I do, I vote anyway. My actions, or lack thereof, count. 3rd party votes won't cut it; the race is obviously between McCain and Obama. Millions of very religious US citizens are told that they might not go to heaven, if they don't vote Republican. Not voting therefore simply equals empowering the McCain/Palin-camp. You could of course shrug and say: "It doesn't matter, it's all just a dog-and-pony show", and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. There's a lot to say for certain conspiracy theories. But how will you feel if you DIDN'T vote, and McCain wins; compared to how you would feel if you DID vote, and McCain wins? Or compared to how you will feel if you DID vote and Obama wins? There's 4 scenario's here, so which one is more appealing to you, besides not having voted, and Obama winning? Sure the elections can get rigged, and eventually it's up to the electoral college to decide if they're even gonna use your vote, but it undeniably still means a lot to a lot of people. If anything, you can at least have decent conversations with people coz if McCain wins, every debate about a better world you will have with someone will start with: "But did you vote or not?" Then you quickly go: "Yes, I did, but did it help?" If this passionate "Change" movement wins over the republican, religious conservatives, it could have great benefits for the non-political grassroots "Change" campaigns, even the anarchist ones, ...especially if Obama turns out to be just another lying sack of schijt. Hopefully, all these people donating money and time to Obama's campaign right now will keep donating them, in pursuit of a better world, which I think is more likely to happen if Obama wins. Then he's gotta bring it; and if there truly is a conspiracy, it will show. This world needs a LOT more changing than just a President, and in order for us to facilitate such drastic change we need to be able to change ourselves, inspire others to change themselves, speak freely, protest freely, think & write freely, sing & dance freely, spread information without censorship freely... etc. etc. Between McCain/Palin & Obama/Biden, who are more likely to let us? Book burning, anyone? Then, after all these realizations, I made the move; I went to register as a voter, and I discovered I'm not yet eligible. I'm still a Resident Alien, not a citizen... Well, the current U.S. president has in his 8 years in office affected many lives worldwide, and not for the better, as I'm sure most here will agree. Yet many of these people, if not most, have no right to vote whatsoever on the US presidency. Do you?

$item.owner.firstName 2008-09-17T05:38:44Z